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▲Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gazamiddleeasteye.net
480 points by Qem 14 hours ago | 287 comments
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14 hours ago [-]
therobots927 3 hours ago [-]
I for one will be holding my representatives responsible who continue to vote for the US to enable a genocide. The videos coming out of Gaza have turned me and many others into single issue voters.
mandeepj 43 minutes ago [-]
> The videos coming out of Gaza have turned me and many others into single issue voters.

Ironically, that was one of the biggest campaign points and voter sentiment on which people flipped to Red. We all know what happened.

GoatInGrey 30 minutes ago [-]
People didn't flip to red so much as blue voters in swing states sitting on their hands and abstaining from voting. Now they're looking down the barrel of authoritarianism and they're still unwilling to vote unless Gaza is a fully solved problem. The cruel irony is that this behavior is worsening the situation in Gaza.
deanCommie 2 minutes ago [-]
And that was always known to have been a counter-productive protest. There's nothing ironic about this. They were told. They didn't care.

It was unambiguously clear that no matter how bad you felt Obama/Biden/Harris were on Israel, Trump was/would be worse.

If every single human life is worth saving (and it is), it's indisputable that Trump is worse for Gaza than Harris would have been.

roenxi 14 minutes ago [-]
If only the blue representatives would resolve this tension by pulling support for a now internationally-recognised genocide! :( I suppose that option is just too radical to put on the table.
22 minutes ago [-]
FridayoLeary 10 minutes ago [-]
Consider that the videos of Oct 7 had a similar effect on lots of decent people. The un is the same now as it was before October 7. In gueterres words "it didn't happen in a vacuum". The complete loss of credibility for the un also didn't happen in a vacuum. Even if their report is true it will fall on deaf ears thanks in no small part to their lack of any sort of objectivity when it comes to Israel.
dmix 41 seconds ago [-]
Agreed, UN doesn't have a great reputation in America, I'm skeptical many people will care about this outside the media news cycle.

Pew says only 52% percent of Americans had a favorable opinion of UN in 2024 https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/09/05/most-peop...

On a political or legal level it might have more implications though but ICJ will focus on the leaders who can avoid visiting certain countries...just like Putin

ajsnigrutin 24 minutes ago [-]
US sure likes israel...

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/saar-urges-250-...

250 us legislators had to fly there (probably paid by the taxpayers) a few days ago.

Sadly, looking at the US politics, whichever side you vote, israel wins.

therobots927 23 minutes ago [-]
I agree. That’s why I won’t vote unless someone NOT funded by AIPAC is on the ballot.
vFunct 56 minutes ago [-]
To really hold them responsible, they have to be given war crimes trials at The Hague. At this point, just unselecting them is not enough. They really need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

This includes anyone that voted to provide military aid to Israel as well as any propagandist that claims Hamas raped anyone on October 7 (of course never naming the names of any rape victims). People like that have literally been given the death penalty at The Hague for promoting genocide before.

It really is too late to save any politicians from prosecution at this point. They are now fully complicit in the genocide, not just aware of it. And this UN report will further bolster any prosecution against them.

lmf4lol 41 minutes ago [-]
> This includes anyone that voted to provide military aid to Israel as well as any propagandist that claims Hamas raped anyone on October 7 (of course never naming the names of any rape victims). People like that have literally been given the death penalty at The Hague for promoting genocide before.

its shocking to read sth like this on HN. Truly shocking. I thought software engineers were able to at least use some pf their brain cells

FergusArgyll 3 minutes ago [-]
Antisemitism doesn't come from a lack of IQ, it comes from being a bad person
breppp 32 minutes ago [-]
Like any social media it's also a place for the lonely and paranoid. These were always attractive ideas for them. The difference is that today they come from the Left.
beloch 2 hours ago [-]
Flipping the U.S. really is the key to ending this conflict. The U.S. reliably uses its security council veto to nix any meaningful UN response and the U.S. remains, by far, the biggest supplier of arms to the IDF. If the US were to stop veto'ing everything and cut off the IDF's supply of, at least, some types of weapons, the new ground assault would likely end quickly.

Unfortunately, that isn't likely to happen. Netanyahu has, to date, handled Trump deftly and Rubio's current presence in Israel seems to be aimed at offering support to the ground offensive, not opposition. I honestly have no idea what kind of backlash it would take to shake U.S. support for this genocide.

jcranmer 1 hours ago [-]
There's definitely a generational gap going in the US. Support for Israel is not popular among the younger generation in the US, and there's a good deal of voters in their 20s and 30s for whom support for Israel a red line in candidates. But older generations tend to be staunchly in favor of Israel, and too much of the gerontocratic political class thinks that pro-Israel uber alles is the key to winning votes.

It is worth noting that Andrew Cuomo, in a desperate last-minute gamble to boost support in the NYC mayoral race, has come out against Israel. Considering that much of the attacks on Mamdani have focused on his support for Palestine (construing him as antisemitic), it's notable that other candidates also seem to think that being anti-Israel is actually the vote winner for moderates right now.

sfink 57 minutes ago [-]
I wouldn't label this as "support for Israel"/"against Israel". One can support Israel without supporting Israel's current approach. Many within Israel are not happy with Netanyahu's methods, and presumably they are not against Israel.

I understand that that's the current shorthand, but it seems inaccurate and unnecessarily polarizing to me.

flyinglizard 1 hours ago [-]
That gap between support of Israel across age groups existed historically AFAIK, although the margins were narrower.

More worrying for Israel is that it's becoming a partisan issue. That goes to both ends - previously unthinkable, unwavering support under Republicans but a very short leash under the Democrats.

dlubarov 1 hours ago [-]
Why would we expect any desirable outcome in this hypothetical though? So the US flips, Israel is pressured into withdrawing, Hamas regains control of the strip and resumes rocket attacks, Israel is forced to respond eventually. It doesn't seem like a path toward a real solution.
aucisson_masque 44 minutes ago [-]
It can either end in the death of one side, most probably Palestinians, or in peace agreement.

Currently there is war, peace is out of the window. First step is to stop the war, second step is to make both side actually negotiate.

It was attempted by Clinton a while ago but assassinations from mossad and hamas prevented the process to success.

To be honest, politicians have failed us too many times for my sad brain to believe that there will be a good outcome.

Most probably Israel society will keep radicalizing itself, Palestinians will be killed and Gaza bombed/annexed leading to the death of both Palestinian and Israeli civilization. Palestinian will be all dead and Israeli will have become in all manner what they initially sought to destroy, literal nazi.

I’d even bet that death by zyklon is more human that seeing your family and yourself getting slowly hungered to death. And contrary to nazi Germany, no Israeli can pretend to not know what’s going on.

Workaccount2 28 minutes ago [-]
I don't think people understand that Hamas is a death cult.
Braxton1980 10 minutes ago [-]
To an extent sure but Israel 's methods of stopping them are the issue. They are using total war which causes suffering disproportionately to innocent people
jedimind 18 minutes ago [-]
I don't think people understand that Zionism is a death cult. And that you're a genocide apologist.

https://web.archive.org/web/20231029055310/ojp.gov/ncjrs/vir...

Workaccount2 15 minutes ago [-]
I wouldn't mistake Palestinians for Hamas operatives, despite how much Hamas wants that.
bigyabai 2 minutes ago [-]
Would the IDF?
7952 41 minutes ago [-]
There isn't a real solution. Just an opportunity for a few years of peace where people can do the important things in life. That is no small thing though. The danger is in chasing some quixotic nationalist dream. That is never ever going to work out.
Braxton1980 16 minutes ago [-]
Israel needs to take a more precise approach to getting rid of Hamas.
bigyabai 1 hours ago [-]
> It doesn't seem like a path toward a real solution.

As long as the Dahiya doctrine persists, it won't be. But that's an Israeli problem - their disproportionate response has been exploited for years. Hamas is fine letting Israel commit as many war crimes as it takes to satisfy their leadership, it very clearly hasn't changed tactics in recent years. The cost to Israeli international credibility seems to be "worth it" in their eyes.

So, if Israel wants peace they first have to stop escalation. But even if Hamas was defeated, we know that wouldn't be the end of things. Next the Druze has to be defended, which would result in a very justified annexation of south Syria and repeat of the same genocidal conditions in Gaza. They would also attempt to unseat power in Yemen, and then embroil America in an unwinnable war against Iran to sustain a true hegemony.

actionfromafar 58 minutes ago [-]
America is pissing away its hegemony all on its own.
52 minutes ago [-]
54 minutes ago [-]
7952 36 minutes ago [-]
The US seems to be dominated by different right wing meme factions now. A choice between different strains of Maga all of whom would kill thousands in Gaza just to spite the left.
flyinglizard 2 hours ago [-]
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sirbutters 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
breppp 1 hours ago [-]
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barbazoo 1 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
victorbjorklund 1 hours ago [-]
You mean like supporting Germany and Japan in 1944-1945? German and Japanese civilians were dying in the thousands. How could it be wrong to support imperial japan and nazi germany by opposing the allies?
tome 1 hours ago [-]
How about the allies in WWII? Were they on the wrong side of history?
jcranmer 1 hours ago [-]
When it comes to strategic bombing, honestly, yes.

It boggles my mind that militaries keep attempting despite decades of experience showing that damn near every single time it's been attempted, it's been an abject failure in its aims and very often entirely counterproductive.

tome 1 hours ago [-]
How about when it comes to military actions that were not strategic bombing?

FWIW the reason that Israeli troops are on the ground and not just razing the Strip from the air is to reduce risk to civilians.

dotancohen 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
2 hours ago [-]
Zhenya 55 minutes ago [-]
The only genocide where the war they started could end immediately they would just release the hostages.

Use some common sense!

impossiblefork 50 minutes ago [-]
But the Palestians and Hamas are distinct. There are even Christian Palestinians who are of course, since Hamas is so fundamentally Islamist, not at all represented by the group.

Palestinians who are not part of Hamas are third parties and when they are attacked, you can't tell them to ask Hamas to release hostages or do anything, because they have no more influence over Hamas than anybody else does.

kunley 43 minutes ago [-]
Do Christian Palestinians live in the Gaza strip or somewhere else?
dotancohen 30 minutes ago [-]
There is a Christian minority in the Gaza strip.
blipvert 18 minutes ago [-]
What you are describing is collective punishment.

It is a war crime.

dotancohen 16 minutes ago [-]
He's describing war. Nobody is targeting the Gazan civilians other than the journalists.
churchill 50 minutes ago [-]
Israel systematically abducts, tortures, and imprisons Palestinians old and young with reckless abandon. I hate to defend Hamas, but the goal of the abductions was to use them as a bargaining chip to get their own captives who'd been unjustly imprisoned in hellish conditions, for years on end.

Settlers in the West Bank openly murder Palestinians like animals, as well. The State of Israel is a violent terrorist state.

actionfromafar 43 minutes ago [-]
While I agree that Israel do all these illegal things, abductions, murders, letting settlers do whatever and so on, I think on a deeper level the Hamas attack was an Iranian proxy attack and to them, bargaining chips and hostages are just details. They play a dirty game.
vFunct 54 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
ergocoder 51 minutes ago [-]
The hostages have nothing to do with it... as much as Gazans have nothing to do with the Oct 7 massacre.

How would the hostage return the land? How would Gazan tell Hamas to stop?

Both answers are they can't

vFunct 45 minutes ago [-]
What exactly were they doing in a war zone then?
ergocoder 41 minutes ago [-]
Many of the current hostages were in a music festival (not a war zone) and captured during the Oct 7 massacre by Palestine.
Atlas667 1 hours ago [-]
I wonder if Israel will try to bully members on the HR council like they've done in past years.
dotancohen 1 hours ago [-]
In what way has Israel bullied members on the HR council?
ciconia 51 minutes ago [-]
I couldn't find any info on intimidation of HR council members. Nevertheless there were reports of the Israeli Mossad chief intimidating the ICC chief prosecutor at the time Fatou Bensouda. [1]

Her successor Karim Khan has also reported threats were made. He was later implicated in a sex scandal [2]. It would not surprise me if this was a Mossad sting operation.

[1] https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240528-israels-mossad-ch... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgeg738rvdeo

Edit: as the sibling comment states, the Americans have put in place sanctions against members of the HR council, along members of the ICC.

lupusreal 53 minutes ago [-]
They use America to sanction the participants: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/07/09/us-sanctions... Just one example of many.

Inb4 whining that it's just the American government being slavishly loyal to the Zionist cause and the Zionist government of Israel has nothing at all to do with this. I swear to god if I get any response like this I will literally go blind from my eyeballs doing full 360s in my skull.

eej71 54 minutes ago [-]
Israel seems like a very ineffective bully considering that the UN consistently condemns them the most vs. any other country in the world.

https://unwatch.org/un-condemns-israel-17-times-6-on-rest-of...

But for me, this says more about the nature of the UN than that of Israel.

FridayoLeary 3 minutes ago [-]
Check the past agenda of the Israel obsessed human rights comitee. It's beyond parody. I can't imagine why any Israel supporter would care about the uns opinion on anything anymore.
gosub100 1 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
breppp 34 minutes ago [-]
Antisemitism is back, with its nasty conspiracy theories, jews as baby killers, controlling the world, involved in any news item.

Good thing Zionism was invented exactly to counter that.

holmesworcester 19 minutes ago [-]
Everyone here is talking about Israel, even the person with the wild comment about Epstein and Kirk.

It is common for a minority of people to say similarly wild things about the US, Russia, China, and so on.

lupusreal 42 minutes ago [-]
The right's split thinking on this issue is largely a split down generational lines. The balance of the split is shifting as old people die. The Zionist faction of the left is almost dead already, and on the right it will still take some more years, but once that's done, America's support for Israel will have expired.

I think Israel realizes they're on borrowed time, and that's why they've adopted such an overtly aggressive strategy of getting what they want now, making their strategic goals a fait accompli while still receiving protection from America. With America out of the picture, Israel goes the way of Rhodesia.

flyinglizard 33 minutes ago [-]
The support for Israel was always higher for older people, and that goes back all the way to the 70's as far as I could tell. Something about being young and impressible, captured by the Palestinian ethos, until people grow up.

When you say "Going by the way of Rhodesia" do you mean Israelis will just scatter away, the remaining ones will be under constant threat of violence?

lupusreal 26 minutes ago [-]
No, it's because American boomers are crazy Christians who think that they must ensure that Israel continues to exist, no matter how much evil it perpetrates, because apparently their schizo book says the existence of Israel is a prerequisite for the resurrection of their Messiah who will then usher in the Apocalypse. Old people in America don't support Israel because they're smarter or more mature, it's because they're insane retards. Young people are abandoning these American churches, and largely religion in general. They haven't been brainwashed into supporting Israel like the boomers were.

BTW, Israel going the way of Rhodesia is unavoidable. Depending on how things go, it might happen in a few years, or twenty years, but as surely as baby boomers all eventually die, so too will Israel die.

slt2021 23 minutes ago [-]
[dead]
ktallett 1 hours ago [-]
Almost certainly
worldsavior 13 hours ago [-]
I find it funny people still find the UN legitimate. They still haven't criticised Hamas attack. The UN in Gaza is extremely corrupt because they are threatened by Hamas or they're themselves Hamas. We already saw this organization being accused of hiring terrorists.

Also, please don't provide Al-Jazeera links, they are accused countless times hiring/supporting terrorists, and their news reporters are themselves terrorists. They're funded by Qatar and Hamas and other organizations.

mort96 12 minutes ago [-]
"The UN is HAMAS" is certainly .. an opinion
orwin 11 hours ago [-]
> I find it funny people still find the UN legitimate. They still haven't criticised Hamas attack

I find it funny that you have to lie so much. They did, it's easy to find. My father is from a Christian orphanage in east Jerusalem. My grandmother hosted sisters and priests from Israel who worked in schools, hospice and orphanage all over the two countries. UN school programs there had a lot of issues, but being religious (Hamas was a religious group before being a terrorist one) or close to Hamas wasn't one (having no heating in schools during winter and having to sometime amputate toes from 10 year old was probably the biggest issue that I remember).

tguvot 6 hours ago [-]
UNRWA schoolbooks for you: https://www.impact-se.org/wp-content/uploads/UNRWA-Education...

and first UN general assembly resolution condemning hamas attack is the one from the past week that speaks about recognition of palestinian state.

unless you can find different one

runarberg 2 minutes ago [-]
[delayed]
xg15 1 hours ago [-]
I can't refute all their findings, but it's still worth looking at the board of that org:

https://www.impact-se.org/about-us/impact-se-board-members/

For an organization ostensibly concerned with education to violence everywhere, that's a LOT of board members with direct connections to Israel.

I also think it's common sense that if an occupying force deliberately ensures your living conditions become ever worse, shoots your friends and family to death for throwing stones and eventually obliterates entire families, that you don't exactly need textbooks to develop hatred.

As for "from the Nile to the Euphrates", just ask Daniella Weiss: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-10-21/ty-article-ma...

tguvot 1 hours ago [-]
"i can't refute the facts so i will have to do character assassination".

(i'll remind that those are books that are taught by UN agency)

the atlantic article from 1961 about unrwa camps showing that they were taught back than liberation of entire area by force and destruction of israel https://cdn.theatlantic.com/media/archives/1961/10/208-4/132...

it's almost like if population is educated for violence for 50 years, it will behave violently and it will result in counter action from "occupying force"

on the other side, Israeli population is been subjected to palestinian violence for extended period. Pretty much everybody was either target of it or lost somebody to it.

Lets see what do we have in Israeli schoolbooks: https://www.impact-se.org/wp-content/uploads/Arabs-and-Pales...

xg15 1 hours ago [-]
Yeah, they do that stuff in the pre-army courses instead.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-09-04/ty-article-op...

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-08-09/ty-article-ma...

tguvot 1 hours ago [-]
i am talking about systemic things in education system. not about random anecdotes. also good chunk of israeli population (and even bigger chunk of those serving in army) is secular and whatever random rabi says means nothing.

but kudos on shifting goal posts.

a_paddy 12 hours ago [-]
The UN secretary general condemned it the day it happened.

https://press.un.org/en/2023/sgsm21981.doc.htm

Anonbrit 12 hours ago [-]
Given the Israeli military are defacto state sponsored terrorists (see e.g. their active support of settler violence on the West Bank if you want to avoid Gaza related complaints). That means every single company in Israel is employing terrorists.
worldsavior 12 hours ago [-]
Sure. The Israel military rapes, kills, slaughter, and rob Gaza and West bank. The IDF is exactly like Hamas sure. /s if you didn't understand.

The Israelis live in the West Bank. The IDF is there to protect them. There is no violence whatsoever from the settlers. It's pure propaganda. There were a few rare times of some violence, but it's nothing compared to what the Palestinians do. Last week, two Palestinians crossed the border and murdered 6 people and 20+ injured on a bus shooting in Jerusalem. They even kill each other.

Each time the IDF comes into Palestinians "cities" to catch terrorists, they throw rocks on them.

a_paddy 11 hours ago [-]
> no violence whatsoever

The UN reported that, in the West Bank, Palestinians killed 6 Israeli settlers and 16 soldiers, while Israelis killed 719 Palestinians, from October 7, 2023, to October 7, 2024" https://www.ochaopt.org/content/humanitarian-situation-updat...

International journalists can't access Gaza, but they have witnessed first hand settler violence. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cewy88jle0eo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0pHcC0HMiQ

worldsavior 11 hours ago [-]
> while Israelis killed 719 Palestinians

Can't find it on the source you provided. The source you provided also justifies terrorists cries about their home being destroyed. It's interesting from where they get these numbers, from Palestinians?

a_paddy 8 hours ago [-]
Apologies, that was for the week ending September 30, only 695 had been killed at that stage in the West Bank. The week ending October 10 has the 719 figure for the full 365 days: https://www.ochaopt.org/content/humanitarian-situation-updat...

What authority, other than the local government, would you be more comfortable with providing those numbers?

tguvot 6 hours ago [-]
any breakdown between civilians and combatants ?

about year ago PA tried to remove Hamas and other charity organizations for Jenin and other cities (that it typically can't entered) but failed and asked Israel to intervene what Israel did.

So you have interesting situation, when Palestinian authority asks Israel to kill palestinians and than Israel is blamed for killing palestinians.

niyyou 11 hours ago [-]
Good that you mention it, yes Israel rapes, kills, robs, as you say. https://www.btselem.org/publications/202408_welcome_to_hell
worldsavior 11 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
niyyou 9 hours ago [-]
I really do. (personal note: I never know if I should engage with these trolls, given them more visibility, or simply ignore them, risking seeing their propaganda spread)
qnpnp 58 minutes ago [-]
Being a "first-world" country has never been incompatible with war crimes.
gxnxcxcx 9 hours ago [-]
We know they do. Now adjust what that tells you about the "first world".
tdeck 9 hours ago [-]
> Again, this is an unreliable source. It provides Palestinians testimonies. In Gaza the amount of untruthful testimonies is disgusting.

Yeah we get it, all Arabs are liars. Anyone who has sympathy for them is a liar. The Sde Teiman video is a fake and also the soldiers in it are all heroes. Israel has the most moral army in the world. IDF soldiers never post TikToks of themselves committing war crimes and laughing about it. It's not as if a person could spend 5 seconds online and find video evidence of these atrocities.

worldsavior 7 hours ago [-]
Sde Teiman MAYBE was real (there is still no proof, and it still being investigated by ISRAEL), but we're talking about terrorists whom murdered and raped people, not citizens.

TikTok is the most propagned platform currently. Not only about Gaza, but about everything. In the mean time, all the injured/starved citizens that were pictured and put on news papers were all a lie. I can also tell you I see many, many videos of sustained shops, rich food, candies and whatever first-world country has in Gaza. Give me one video please.

a_paddy 7 hours ago [-]
Where is your evidence?
worldsavior 6 hours ago [-]
It's evident for example that this thin child that was put on the front page of NYT was actually suffering from a genetic disorder. It's also evident that the pictures of Gaza citizens starving with their bowls out asking for food, was actually a complete lie (you can find pictures from the side, and not only from the front). Yet you still see those images on TikTok.
a_paddy 3 hours ago [-]
You mean Mohammad Al-Motawaq, the boy with muscular dystrophy? MD wasn't the cause of this weight loss, a lack of food was.

Unless you'd prefer to trust the word of an Israeli blogger over the childs doctors (because of their ethnicity).

https://www.npr.org/2025/08/05/nx-s1-5488798/gaza-baby-starv...

Where is your evidence to back any of your opinions?

adhamsalama 53 minutes ago [-]
I don't think I can even give you the benefit of the doubt of being clueless, you're just deliberately spreading false propaganda.
NaomiLehman 11 hours ago [-]
IDF is 100 times worse than Hamas. What do you mean?
actionfromafar 10 hours ago [-]
Qualitatively, no. On the other hand, there's this saying in war, quantity is a quality its own. So, IDF looks very bad right now.
SirFatty 11 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
a_paddy 10 hours ago [-]
Since 1948, on average, the IDF has killed 10x as many Palestinians that Israelis killed.

Since October 7th, that is at least 60x.

mrguyorama 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
buellerbueller 2 hours ago [-]
IDF is state sponsored; they (and Israel more broadly) have a responsibility to comport themselves within the bounds of international law. If they choose not to, then they are behaving like terrorists.
nahuel0x 9 hours ago [-]
Yes, everyone that criticizes Israel for killing and mutilating thousands of children in the most horrible ways is Hamas, we already know that...
buyucu 8 minutes ago [-]
AlJazeera is far better than most Western Media.
dotancohen 2 hours ago [-]
I"m going through the PDF now and I am appalled.

All the evidence cited is either circular in nature, referencing other agencies and bodies which cite each other, all reinforcing an extremely one-sided ratcheting look at the conflict. Ambiguous statements made by Israeli officials are consistently interpreted in the manner most damning to Israel, and statements of clear genocide made by those who attack Israel are ignored or excused. They cite clearly flawed logic such as the commonly debunked "Israel admits to 83% civilian deaths".

Interestingly enough, I tried to find other cases in which the UN Human Rights Council concluded that a genocide had occurred or was occurring. I found none. Not the Rwanda genocide, not the Ughers, nor Tamil, nor Rohingya, nor Nigeria, nor Chechnya, nor the Congo, nor Darfur, not in Sudan, not ISIS, nor Yemen nor Ethiopia.

Only Israel.

Zhenya 55 minutes ago [-]
No Jews - No News.
epolanski 2 hours ago [-]
While you do have points that these UN bodies do seem to sleep more often than not, one should never, under any circumstance attempt to suggest that what's happening in Gaza aren't crimes against humanity.

A friend of mine is in the Red Cross staff, they had more than 20 casualties since 2021 in Palestine. Their staff was literally shot at because they were doctors.

It's sickening.

xyzelement 53 minutes ago [-]
"never under any circumstances attempt to suggest" anything contrary to what you believe is an unreasonable and weak proposition to an argument.

You are welcome to believe what you want to believe but plenty of people throughout History believed something as strongly and self righteously as you do and turned out dead wrong. To think you are immune to that and suggest that no voice to the contrary should be allowed is ridiculous.

tick_tock_tick 16 minutes ago [-]
> under any circumstance attempt to suggest that what's happening in Gaza aren't crimes against humanity

I mean I don't think anyone will argue it's good but "crimes against humanity" is certainly a massive exaggeration.

dotancohen 1 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
epolanski 1 hours ago [-]
> Which side do you think has an interest in shooting doctors?

The one shooting doctors.

What happened on October 7 has been a tragedy. 38 children died that day, and you know two of the mothers. I can't even relate with their suffering, in no way I can understand their pain like you do.

But I don't know either any mothers of the 32'000 killed and wounded on the other side.

"One day, when it’s safe, when there’s no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it’s too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this."

dotancohen 1 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
ViewTrick1002 55 minutes ago [-]
We should not call a genocide a genocide because you personally have been impacted by the latest trigger of a long conflict?

I can never understand your pain but for me this reads like bloodlust coming from revenge. That is a path that will never lead to an end of bloodshed.

Given the actions of the Netanyahu government continuously siding with actions prolonging the genocide despite whatever action Hamas takes what do you propose?

What do you think of the colonialists/settlers/occupiers on the West Bank stealing Palestinian land and forcing people from their homes?

dotancohen 39 minutes ago [-]

  > We should not call a genocide a genocide because you personally have been impacted by the latest trigger of a long conflict?
No. We should not call a war a genocide, when that label is used to justify the extermination of a people.

And if you don't think that the intent of the HRC is to destroy the state of Israel, then you have not been following that body. The UN HRC has one single permanent agenda item to be discussed at every convention: "Human rights situation in Palestine and other occupied Arab territories"

s5300 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
dotancohen 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
jcranmer 1 hours ago [-]
I'd have to check, but I think Israel has killed more children in the past two years than Hamas killed Israelis on October 7. Israel has killed something like 30-40x the number of civilians in the same timeframe.

Hamas is a bunch of evil people. That doesn't justify descending to their level of butchery to exterminate them, especially not when you are so much more efficient at that butchery.

dotancohen 1 hours ago [-]
You don't have to check, more Gazan children have died than Israeli children. So by your argument, had Hamas killed more Israeli children then there wouldn't be a problem? I can think of no other reason why you made that argument.

  > Israel has killed something like 30-40x the number of civilians in the same timeframe.
You might notice that Hamas was in Israel for less than 1/40 the time that this war has been going on. So per time period, Hamas killed _more_ children than Israel, given the chance. Who do you accuse of genocide now? They've just been denied the chance.
qnpnp 46 minutes ago [-]
> Who do you accuse of genocide now?

The one doing it

> They've just been denied the chance.

Perhaps. Perhaps if they somehow had the time, means and power to do it, they would have killed as many people on the other side, although this is high speculative as the past decades would have played out very differently anyway.

I'm not sure where you're going with that though. Nobody claims Hamas are kind and gently guys.

dttze 1 hours ago [-]
[dead]
ViewTrick1002 1 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
cryptoegorophy 8 minutes ago [-]
Can someone help explain, if Israel was attacked by Hamas back in October, what is considered a proper response to that? Not responding is wrong. Committing genocide is wrong too. Genuinely curious.
ipaddr 3 hours ago [-]
Wonder why this made the frontpage when other political articles die.

Has the rules around political non technical articles changed? Can we get an Epstein thread for the frontpage sometime this week?

dang 3 hours ago [-]
No, the rules haven't changed—they've been the same for many years. Let me try to dig up some past explanations.

Edit: here's one from a few months ago, which covers the principles: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43738815.

Re how we approach political topics on HN in general: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

Re how we deal with Major Ongoing Topics, i.e. topics where there are a ton of articles and submissions over time: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re how we approach turning off flags: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re the perception that "HN has been getting more political lately" (spoiler - it hasn't - though it does fluctuate): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869.

If you or anyone will check out some of those links and still have a question that isn't answered there, I'd be happy to take a crack at it.

thegrim33 57 minutes ago [-]
Looking at the official HN guidelines, it states that "Most stories about politics" is off-topic, and "If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic".

Is the Isreal/Gaza debate not political, and not mainstream news? How does a story like this not directly violate those guidelines?

Furthermore, the guidelines state that stories should be what "good hackers" find "intellectually satisfying". A political debate thread about Isreal is what "good hackers" would find intellectually satisfying?

I just can not understand how a story such as this in any way remotely meets the established, official guidelines for what belongs here.

Considering these threads also, universally, just devolve in political flamewars / hate spreading. There's nothing constructive here. There's no debate. There's no opposing ideas/opinions allowed.

bigyabai 9 minutes ago [-]
Israel and Israeli businesses are an intractable part of the modern American tech scene. Mellanox, for example, is the cited reason Nvidia ships any datacenter-scale interconnect at all today. America's highest-tech defense contractors work in direct concert with Rafael et. al, and companies like Greyshift are suppliers of US law enforcement.

When the equation changes vis-a-vis Israel's credibility, this entire Jenga structure has to be reevaluated. It's not satisfying to think about, but it is intellectually prudent and remains important regardless of how civil the response ends up being.

roughly 1 hours ago [-]
Just wanna say this is the kind of day where I feel like I should send you a fruit basket or something for the work you do here.
cptnapalm 11 minutes ago [-]
I think you are the only good moderator on the internet.
decayiscreation 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
dang 3 hours ago [-]
I've never discussed this topic with Garry and no one at YC has tried to influence how we moderate HN on this or any other political topic.

You might want to check out the part of the HN FAQ which explains that the moderators are editorially independent: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html.

Ozzie_osman 2 hours ago [-]
I feel like parent probably meant Paul Graham. Garry holds polar opposite opinions (he blocked me on X because he had had made claims about what Intifada means, and as an Arabic speaker I felt compelled to point out the correct meaning).

In any case, I don't think Paul or Garry are interfering with the algorithm or moderation here.

decayiscreation 1 hours ago [-]
Yep, I meant pg
EvgeniyZh 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
banku_brougham 2 hours ago [-]
maybe because we are two years into an event that will define the early 21st century.
JumpCrisscross 44 minutes ago [-]
For me, this is meaningful because for the first time a legitimate international body is calling this a genocide.

Previously, it’s been activists and claims that this might be genocide. I haven’t read the report yet. But I will, and I intend to leave my mind open as to whether this raises the profile of this war in my mind relative to domestic issues.

dotancohen 21 minutes ago [-]
Go read this UNHCR report. All the evidence is just circular references to other bodies who reference each other. The most damning thing they could pin on Israel was that "Israel admits 83% of the casualties are civilians". That idea was because Israel could name 17% of the casualties in Hamas registers as members of the organization. But assuming that every other casualty is a civilian is quite a stretch. For one thing, Israel doesn't know the name of every militant it kills while he's aiming an RPG at them. For another, there are many other militant organizations in the strip, notably the Islamic Jihad. For a third, typically 75% - 90% of the casualties of war are civilians by the UN's own numbers.
dmbche 39 minutes ago [-]
Francesca Albanese has held the genocide line since day one as the UN special rapporteur on israel and palestine
dotancohen 26 minutes ago [-]
She's hardly impartial. Her husband worked for the Palestinian Authority.
dmbche 23 minutes ago [-]
Wether she is or not is not for me to decide - at any rate, her analysis seems to have been absolutely spot on if we are now recognizing it is a genocide, isn't it?

And if you think the UN rapporteur is too biased to do their job correctly, why do you care what the UN does?

dotancohen 20 minutes ago [-]
No, because her report is part of the "evidence" against Israel. Your argument is circular.
dmbche 30 seconds ago [-]
No, it seems there is no possible evidence for you to recognize a genocide. Good luck going forward
Fraterkes 1 hours ago [-]
C'mon man, the Charlie Kirk post stayed on the front-page for a pretty long time.
Zhenya 54 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
xinuc 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
_DeadFred_ 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
yieldcrv 13 hours ago [-]
Useless except if the following done on the US side:

Remove exception to AIPAC political status

Reevaluate AIPAC non profit status entirely

Replicate EO 14046 for Israel which adds the entire ruling party and head of state and spouses and military and affiliated business to the OFAC list

all of this is easy and doesn’t require Congress

but nobody is close to considering those actions with regard to Israel. Notably, other nation’s organizations do not enjoy this courtesy

(Don’t sorry guys, Hamas is already on these lists too)

therobots927 3 hours ago [-]
Voters can take a stand and refuse to vote for anyone complicit in this atrocity.
imglorp 2 hours ago [-]
In the US, both parties were supportive in the last election. Not many choices.
therobots927 40 minutes ago [-]
I can write in “free Palestine”
dmbche 38 minutes ago [-]
And it's gonna get seen by one (1) vote counter who'll then put it away/throw it in the bin
therobots927 26 minutes ago [-]
As long as it doesn’t go to a genocide enabler I could care less where my vote goes
dmbche 22 minutes ago [-]
Oh I just don't vote instead, it just feels performative now
actionfromafar 2 hours ago [-]
One party had a long leash. The other cut the leash and yelled attaboy.

Now acting mildly concerned when the neighbour downstreet (Qatar) got their chickens bombed.

IncreasePosts 57 minutes ago [-]
Why shouldn't Hamas leadership be bombed wherever they may be? They're the leaders of a terrorist organization. The US takes out terrorists wherever they may be (or, works with local authorities to get them first). But, when local authorities are siding with the terrorists, we go in there and do it ourselves. October 7th was Israel's 9/11 - we went and got bin Laden in Pakistan, without dealing with the Pakistani government. Why shouldn't Israel do the same thing? I say - kill all the Hamas leadership, and leave the random Palestinian citizens alone.
axus 19 minutes ago [-]
There was only one bin Laden, and we didn't use missiles for that one.
mschuster91 1 hours ago [-]
> Now acting mildly concerned when the neighbour downstreet (Qatar) got their chickens bombed.

Thing is, what was bombed there was Hamas leadership, not some rank-and-file goons.

actionfromafar 1 hours ago [-]
Yes, and at this point I'm not arguing for or against that action. I'm saying the current and previous US administration have very different foreign policy.
mrguyorama 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
netsharc 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
jenders 13 hours ago [-]
This is not tech related and does not belong on hacker news
omnicognate 13 hours ago [-]
This is politics and therefore probably off-topic for hn. It not being tech-related is irrelevant.

An argument could be made that it is an "interesting new phenomenon", but the post is most likely to result in tedious flamewars regardless and so should probably be killed.

From https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html:

> Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.

Theodores 13 hours ago [-]
I would agree with you if we were in 1994 and this was about Rwanda.

Those tower blocks in Gaza that were felled on the anniversary of 9/11 were not taken down with machetes. We have got AI assisted targeting going on, with all of your favourite cloud service providers delivering value to their shareholders thanks to sales to the IDF.

The corporation that once had 'don't be evil' as their mission statement are suckling on the IDF teat along with Amazon, IBM, Microsoft and Cisco.

tchbnl 13 hours ago [-]
Sure it does, if enough users find this interesting to them. I for one find this interesting.
13 hours ago [-]
a_paddy 13 hours ago [-]
This is a genocide.
Qem 13 hours ago [-]
A tech-enabled one.
leonixyz 2 hours ago [-]
Hopefully we are at the beginning of a change, but I doubt this will come only from the UN.

The UN is the only international democratic institution that - even with its many imperfections - prevents the world to fall into complete anarchy. It's quite telling that it gets ignored since so many years by the country that elevates itself as the world defender of democracy, the US.

The UN has voted for decades for ending the embargo towards Cuba. Every year the outcome of the vote, which has always resulted in a great majority demanding the immediate end of the embargo, has been ignored by the US, resulting in millions of Cubans facing extreme economic consequences since many decades. The last time every country except Israel and US voted for ending the embargo (I might be wrong, maybe a single African state abstained).

In all of this, the only seed of joy I see, was seeing the Cubans a couple of years ago, after decades and decades of seeing their economy strangled by the most powerful country on Earth, roll out their own Covid vaccine just at the same time of those of big Pharma - a vaccine that resulted excellent, effective, and cheap. Hats off for the Cubans. Hope to see some other seed like this also in the Palestinians.

tick_tock_tick 1 hours ago [-]
> The UN is the only international democratic institution that - even with its many imperfections - prevents the world to fall into complete anarchy. It's quite telling that it gets ignored since so many years by the country that elevates itself as the world defender of democracy, the US.

It's not been ignored the purpose of the UN is for largely irrelevant countries to petition the world powers to maybe consider doing something. The UN has been so successful because it has no real power over players like the USA.

> The UN has voted for decades for ending the embargo towards Cuba.

Ok? I mean the purpose of the UN is for people to suggest stuff to players like the USA not for the USA to actually do what the UN votes for.

zpeti 2 hours ago [-]
What people fail to understand about dynamics between countries, is ultimately there is no supreme court or arbiter of truth. The UN doesn't have authority over any powerful country (or non powerful country for that matter).

People seem to have this concept that there is some supra national legal system, or even moral system that can hold a higher truth than what powerful countries want, but there isn't. When it comes to geopolitics, the biggest and most powerful sets the rules and lives by them (or not). The USA has zero motivation to do something the UN wants it to do, if it doesn't itself want to do it. No one is going to hold it to account.

Ultimately - whoever controls the violence can set the rules. For the last 80 years that's been the US. Maybe that is changing, but not quite yet.

The UN isn't an international democratic institution. For the last 20-30 years it's been a powerless theatre. And it didn't have much power before then either. Because ultimately, whoever has the most nukes and the biggest army rules the world.

o11c 2 hours ago [-]
One hopeful observation is that I actually have seen coverage of the genocide in a local newspaper this time. N=1 of course (and I'm not sure what other local newspapers have been like), but that's more than before.
MangoToupe 2 hours ago [-]
I'm afraid the latest spate of "recognizing the state of Palestine" is not, in fact, a sign of coming relief for the people there, but rather a spigot to relieve domestic pressure to engage in substantive actions (sanctions, pressuring the US and other suppliers of arms to engage in sanctions, let alone sending peacekeepers or no-fly zones).

Regardless of how much you're personally invested in the topic, this should break the hearts of everyone who dreamed that the international community could hold each other legally accountable. Indeed, the US would rather sanction individuals at the ICJ than acknowledge any sort of legitimacy—even as our own politicians accuse Russia of engaging in "war crimes". I have no doubt that they are, in fact, I think that the evidence is quite damning. But the double standard is striking, as is the difference between the footage visible on social media and what is acknowledged when you turn on the TV or open the paper.

toast0 57 minutes ago [-]
> I'm afraid the latest spate of "recognizing the state of Palestine" is not, in fact, a sign of coming relief for the people there, but rather a spigot to relieve domestic pressure to engage in substantive actions (sanctions, pressuring the US and other suppliers of arms to engage in sanctions, let alone sending peacekeepers or no-fly zones).

I don't think recognition as a State would really change anything. If at least one of the permanent members of the UN Security Council will veto everything that comes up, the UN won't effectively intervene in the situation. Military intervention in such a case is unlikely, unless at least one permanent member is willing to join an intervention coalition. Looking at conflicts the US has been involved in, it usually lines up around the lines with US maybe with their usual friends vs Locals or Locals and Russia and friends. The only one I found where the pattern was when France started sending arms to Nicaragua while the US was supporting the other side [1]. Unless Russia or China wants to support the Palestinians militarily, or the US decides not to no longer support Israel militarily, there's not much chance of outside intervention here.

Given the outside countries can't effectively intervene, recognizing the state of Palestine at least sends a message, that maybe hopefully influences the US?

[1] https://www.csmonitor.com/1982/0715/071566.html

actionfromafar 2 hours ago [-]
The international community is a worthwhile endeavour. But all other countries play at the behest of the US and now, also China.

Between them, the rest have only local influence.

Invictus0 2 hours ago [-]
If this is a genocide then genocide has become a meaningless word.

Compare the population of Palestine to the population of the Tutsi's before and after the Rwandan genocide.

Palestine: https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/palestinian-territory-...

Tutsis (AI summary):

During the 1994 Rwandan genocide, the Tutsi population was decimated, with the pre-genocide population of over 650,000 reduced by approximately 77%. This massive decline was the result of a coordinated campaign of slaughter by Hutu extremists over the course of 100 days. [1, 2, 3] Tutsi population before the genocide The exact size of the Tutsi population before 1994 is debated, but figures based on the 1991 census provide the following estimates:

• Total population: Rwanda's total population was approximately 7 million in 1994. • Tutsi percentage: The 1991 census registered the Tutsi as 8.4% of the population, which amounted to 657,000 people. • Contested figures: Some observers contend that the Tutsi population was undercounted by the Hutu-led government at the time to minimize their political and social importance. A more widely cited estimate places the Tutsi population percentage closer to 14%. [1, 4, 5, 6]

Tutsi population after the genocide The genocide created a devastating loss of life and a profound demographic shift.

• Estimated deaths: At least 500,000 Tutsi were killed between April and July 1994. Some estimates place the death toll at over 800,000 Tutsi. • Population percentage: The violence annihilated about three-quarters of the Tutsi population that was in Rwanda at the time. • Post-genocide data: Estimating the Tutsi population after 1994 became complicated because many survivors concealed their identity to avoid being killed. The Rwandan government has also since scrapped ethnic identification from its censuses. • Refugee crisis: Millions of Rwandans fled the country, including many Tutsis who had been in exile before the genocide and Hutus who feared retaliation after the Tutsi-led Rwandan Patriotic Front (RPF) took control of the country. [1, 2, 7, 8, 9]

The Tutsi population today In contemporary Rwanda, official government policy discourages ethnic identification to promote national unity and reconciliation. While precise numbers are not published, recent estimates place the current Tutsi population in Rwanda at 15% of the total population, and at 14% of the population of neighboring Burundi. [10, 11, 12, 13, 14]

AI responses may include mistakes.

[1] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/7/30-years-on-what-led... https://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/rwanda/Geno1-3-04.htm[3] https://hmh.org/library/research/rwandan-genocide-guide/[4] https://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/rwanda/Geno1-3-04.htm[5] https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-prevention/countries/rwanda/d... https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-prevention/countries/rwanda/d... https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-prevention/countries/rwanda/m... https://www.britannica.com/event/Rwanda-genocide-of-1994[9] https://cla.umn.edu/chgs/holocaust-genocide-education/resour... https://study.com/academy/lesson/tutsi-history-culture-facts... https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17502977.2024.2... https://1997-2001.state.gov/global/human_rights/1998_hrp_rep... https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/crq.21399[1... https://elearning.reb.rw/course/section.php?id=4591

nemomarx 2 hours ago [-]
What stat are you using for current Palestinian population during this conflict? Any good estimate of the deaths to hunger over the next few years?

I don't believe that the charges in the report require success either way, but it would help with your statistics.

machina_ex_deus 35 minutes ago [-]
Even according to Hamas own numbers, 60,000 Palestinians died, 200 from starvation. That's very low compared to real genocides. That's very low considering Israel killed an estimated 10,000 of Hamas soldiers. That's pretty good accuracy in all modern standards of war.
bjourne 18 minutes ago [-]
According to Wikipedia between 25 and 33 thousand Bosnians and Croats were killed in the Bosnian genocide. Thus your argument doesn't hold, unless you contend that there was no genocide in Bosnia either.
SilverElfin 49 minutes ago [-]
Yep, it’s odd to call it a genocide when their population has been growing continuously, and significantly. Israel can’t both be a highly effective genocidal force and also failing to actually succeed at the outcomes of a genocide.
bxsioshc 2 hours ago [-]
Are you arguing that whether something does or doesn't genocide can the boiled down to a percentage. As it turns out, a lot of people disagree with that view.
mattmaroon 1 hours ago [-]
@dang isn’t this the exact kind of story HN isn’t supposed to have?
qingcharles 47 minutes ago [-]
See here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45267159

mfru 10 hours ago [-]
Conclusion:

" 251. The Commission’s analysis in this report relates solely to the determination of genocide under the Genocide Convention as it relates to the responsibility of the State of Israel both for the failure to prevent genocide, for committing genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza since October 2023 and for the failure to punish genocide. The Commission also notes that, while its analysis is limited to the Palestinians specifically in Gaza during the period since 7 October 2023, it nevertheless raises the serious concern that the specific intent to destroy the Palestinians as a whole has extended to the rest of the occupied Palestinian territory, that is, the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, based on Israeli authorities’ and Israeli security forces’ actions therein, and to the period before 7 October 2023. The events in Gaza since 7 October 2023 have not occurred in isolation, as the Commission has noted. They were preceded by decades of unlawful occupation and repression under an ideology requiring the removal of the Palestinian population from their lands and its replacement.

252. The Commission concludes on reasonable grounds that the Israeli authorities and Israeli security forces have committed and are continuing to commit the following actus reus of genocide against the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, namely (i) killing members of the group; (ii) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (iii) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; and (iv) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.

253. On incitement to genocide, the Commission concludes that Israeli President Isaac Herzog, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and then Defence Minister Yoav Gallant, have incited the commission of genocide and that Israeli authorities have failed to take action against them to punish this incitement. The Commission has not fully assessed statements by other Israeli political and military leaders, including Minister for National Security Itamar Ben-Gvir and Minister for Finance Bezalel Smotrich, and considers that they too should be assessed to determine whether they constitute incitement to commit genocide.

254. On the mens rea of genocide, the Commission concludes that statements made by Israeli authorities are direct evidence of genocidal intent. In addition, the Commission concludes that the pattern of conduct is circumstantial evidence of genocidal intent and that genocidal intent was the only reasonable inference that could be drawn from the totality of the evidence. Thus, the Commission concludes that the Israeli authorities and Israeli security forces have had and continue to have the genocidal intent to destroy, in whole or in part, the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.

255. The Commission concludes that the State of Israel bears responsibility for the failure to prevent genocide, the commission of genocide and the failure to punish genocide against the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip."

breppp 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
ncallaway 2 hours ago [-]
That's why the mens rea element is also an element of the crime. You've completely skipped over that part of the report and the conclusion.
breppp 2 hours ago [-]
Which is completely based on trying to analyze the reactions of politicians to an attack that included mass killings of civilians, intense brutality and mass rape. surprise surprise these are filled with anger and do not read like a swedish minister reaction to migrant birds. These are not different than the USA post 9/11.

Even if you take these statements, and add everything that happened on the ground for the last two years, comparing it to the Armenian, Rawandian or Jewish genocides is a joke of epic proportions. It's a very minor war even in Middle Eastern terms, compared to the recent Syrian or Yemen civil wars or the American involvement in Iraq

1 hours ago [-]
kergonath 1 hours ago [-]
> And let's find a war where clauses I, II, and III do not apply

When these clauses apply against civilian populations, they are war crimes or crimes against Humanity, or both.

tome 1 hours ago [-]
Can you name a war in which members of a group weren't killed, or serious bodily or mental harm wasn't caused to a members of a group?
breppp 45 minutes ago [-]
Under that definition, the Charlie Kirk assassination is a genocide of the American people
0_gravitas 23 minutes ago [-]
I don't see the corollary here.
cramcgrab 1 hours ago [-]
Why is this posted on a tech news site?
tomhow 53 minutes ago [-]
From the guidelines:

On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.

Off-Topic: Most stories about politics... unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

bigyabai 48 minutes ago [-]
Because Israel is a part of the tech news cycle.
SilverElfin 35 minutes ago [-]
I wonder the same. It’s odd to see it still here given the low quality of the discussion. And it is flooded by mischaracterizations, misinformation, and one-sided hyperbolic takes. I wonder what the right space or format is to have debates like this but in an effective way, rather than sides trying to win.
31 minutes ago [-]
dotancohen 59 minutes ago [-]
To divide the Americans.
vFunct 55 minutes ago [-]
I don't understand this complaint. Are you the editor of this site?
26 minutes ago [-]
slt2021 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
dang 3 hours ago [-]
Edit: since you've posted egregiously like this before and have ignored our requests to stop, I've banned the account.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44738555 (July 2025)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44362828 (June 2025)

Bottom-of-the-barrel antisemitism ought to be the easiest thing in the world to avoid, regardless of your views or feelings about the ongoing situation. In any case, there's no place for it on Hacker News—never has been and never will.

---- original comment: ----

rimunroe is correct, you've repeated a classic antisemitic trope. We ban accounts that post like that, so please don't post like that again.

It's entirely possible, and ought to be entirely easy, to make any substantive point you have without any of that.

rimunroe 3 hours ago [-]
What Israel is doing is reprehensible, but you're promoting a classic antisemetic myth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel
clot27 12 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
random9749832 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
dotancohen 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
random9749832 1 hours ago [-]
Intentionally killing children will never be justified, everything else serves as a decoy from acknowledging this simple fact.
dotancohen 1 hours ago [-]
Israel does not intentionally kill children. Hamas does. They state it clearly.
lentil_soup 1 hours ago [-]
Quite a few thousand killed by Israel, or are you claiming that's not true?
SilverElfin 46 minutes ago [-]
I wouldn’t call those intentional. Collateral damage in a defensive war against terrorists who are hiding among civilians is different from intentionally seeking to kill children as your only objective.
GoatInGrey 16 minutes ago [-]
Even if Israel is definitively shown to be genocidal, what the hell do you do with that? Because the result of that determination is that you now have a conflict where both sides are genocidal against the other. How do you pick a side in that scenario without implicitly supporting genocide? Do you try to determine whether Palestinian lives are worth more or less than Israeli/Jewish lives, using your own arithmetic? Try to argue that some forms of genocide aren't really genocide when you "really think about it"?

I think it's an impossible problem from an ethics perspective.

dotancohen 45 minutes ago [-]
I agree that thousands of children have been killed in Gaza - by both Israel and Hamas. Trying to pin all of them on Israel only encourages Hamas to kill more.
adhamsalama 58 minutes ago [-]
Quite the opposite actually.

You're free to Google the countless cases of Israel deliberately killing children, but I doubt you wanna get out of your echo chamber.

dotancohen 44 minutes ago [-]
My echo chamber? I read the Gazan and other Arab telegram channels in Arabic. I write back and forth with people in Gaza (Gazans, who live there) every few days. You levy at me unfounded accusations.
bsaul 1 hours ago [-]
Nobody in israel's army is aiming at children except maybe for some people turning crazy because of the war, which happens in every war.

Pretending otherwise is just blatant propaganda.

bsaul 1 hours ago [-]
you were downvoted because people don't have any argument against your point : jews couldn't stop the holocaust by just surrendering, like hamas does.

The two situations have absolutely nothing in common.

actionfromafar 1 hours ago [-]
So as long as there is one Hamas left standing, everyone around must die. This is what you mean?

Edit: can the non-Hamas surrender and avoid getting killed? They can't and the situations on the ground aren't that different. A Warzaw and Gazan survivor would have a lot in common.

dotancohen 1 hours ago [-]
So as long as there is one Hamas left standing, he could return the hostages and end the war.
actionfromafar 1 hours ago [-]
So, you don't disagree. That's pretty telling.
SilverElfin 45 minutes ago [-]
Nor do you. Why can’t Hamas surrender and turn over hostages? Why should Israel put up with a continued threat against its residents of any magnitude?
actionfromafar 37 minutes ago [-]
Can the non-Hamas surrender and live? No, they can just stay and die. Tell me, what should a non-Hamas member in Gaza do right now to avoid getting bombed?

Edit: I found your answer to that question:

https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=45268680&goto=threads%...

Paraphrased, the children are part of the culture and may die. There are no civilians.

dotancohen 34 minutes ago [-]

  > what should a non-Hamas member in Gaza do right now to avoid getting bombed
Evacuate when told to by the IDF. It's terrible, but it's better than being bombed.

But you are correct - the responsibility to end the war and prevent further civilian casualties lies squarely with Hamas. Pressure them to return the hostages, don't pressure Israel to capitulate to terrorists.

actionfromafar 29 minutes ago [-]
Except in practice, IDF bombs "safe" areas too. There's no out.

But it seems you are getting your way, we will find out exactly how many dead are acceptable to mr Bibi.

adhamsalama 57 minutes ago [-]
That's if the Israeli army won't kill the captives after they're freed.
incomingpain 11 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
mfru 10 hours ago [-]
Cited from the full report:

255. The Commission concludes that the State of Israel bears responsibility for the failure to prevent genocide, the commission of genocide and the failure to punish genocide against the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.

incomingpain 10 hours ago [-]
The reality is that it would take a court to find guilt and it's not their place to conclude guilt on someone not even subject to their accusation.
tdeck 9 hours ago [-]
It literally says they bear responsibility for the commission of genocide. Did you fail to... read the one sentence you were responding to?
nahuel0x 9 hours ago [-]
You forgot to read the "commission of genocide" part.
tdeck 9 hours ago [-]
I see that the person we replied to edited their comment. It originally said something along the lines of "that just says they failed to prevent genocide."
pojzon 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
dang 1 hours ago [-]
That sounds like you're flirting with holocaust denial. We ban that sort of account, so no more of this please.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

shadowgovt 2 hours ago [-]
Not so much "lies" as "a people having a genocide committed against them does not make them constitutionally incapable of ever committing one themselves in the future." For several reasons, including that it was different people (only 7% of Holocaust survivors are still alive) and that 'nation,' as a conceptual construct, still carries the same weaknesses that it did when a relatively few voices in Germany used that construct to rally the masses to commit atrocities against their own citizens (and the people in their temporarily-conquered territory) for being 'the wrong kind' of people.

"It's not wrong when we're doing it" is an old, old failing of human empathy and sense of justice.

actionfromafar 1 hours ago [-]
In fact, I think trauma often makes the victims more likely to perpetuate violence.
1 hours ago [-]
bsaul 1 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
jedimind 1 hours ago [-]
zionists still trying to deceive people with misleading analogies while pretending that their apartheid ethno-state can just start its origin story at october 7th [1]. I wonder what kind of individual still buys into these false and lazy zionist narratives.

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20231029055310/ojp.gov/ncjrs/vir...

niyyou 11 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
flyinglizard 1 hours ago [-]
The UN discredits itself: UNGA 2015-2023, 154 resolutions against Israel, 71 against all other countries _combined_.

Of course it stems from the anti-Israeli bias of its members: a single Jewish state against 57 Muslim states.

dlubarov 1 hours ago [-]
I think this was an even clearer example of the UN's anti-Israel bias: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/debunked-un-off...

Very blatant disinformation from a top UN official (leader of OCHA), no retraction or apology, and no consequences.

hashbig 1 hours ago [-]
Or it stems from Israel committing more war crimes than other nations
flyinglizard 56 minutes ago [-]
Does it seem plausible to you that during the years of the Syrian civil war, Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the Tigray war in Ethiopia, the war in South Sudan and countless others (conflicts which, in total, claimed the lives of millions), Israel would commit war crimes at a ratio of 2:1 against the entire world, combined?

In contrast, the number of deaths from both Israeli and Palestinian sides in the same time period was several hundreds.

tdeck 9 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
niyyou 9 hours ago [-]
You forgot, the West Bank, under apartheid, extreme settler violence, constant and massive home expropriation, is also khamas, although no khamas ever walked on it.
bjourne 5 hours ago [-]
It's part of a broader phenomena: feelings over facts. Doesn't matter how many commissions say it's genocide and how much evidence is presented, people don't "feel" it is true, therefore it is not true. Zero difference between these people, climate change deniers, and anti-vaxers.
4899641178855 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
buyucu 4 minutes ago [-]
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raxxorraxor 14 hours ago [-]
> Preventing births within the group: The attack on Gaza’s largest fertility clinic destroyed thousands of embryos, sperm samples, and eggs. Experts told the commission this would prevent thousands of Palestinian children from ever being born.

To be honest, I think this report is reaching.

Also it should be noted that Israel did supply Gaza with necessities before the war. To stop these supplies is something different than restricting access. All that doesn't fit with the meaning of the term genocide, no legal investigation changes that. Of course you should be able to put it in front of a judge, but I don't see it how it can be sensibly argued aside as a tool to put some pressure on Israel.

a_paddy 13 hours ago [-]
They have repeatedly hampered the entry of baby formula, a clear pattern of actions to stunt childhood development, increase childhood mortality and dissuade the population from having more children.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-said-hampering-entry-of...

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/07/01/i...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jul/22/gaza-i...

philipallstar 13 hours ago [-]
Why can't it come in through Egypt?
tdeck 13 hours ago [-]
Because Israel controls that border crossing:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/7/israel-takes-control...

Even before this they had effective control of all goods moving through since 2007.

SanjayMehta 11 hours ago [-]
Consistent with the precedent set by the USA. Of course, they didn’t just hamper, they blew up the factory itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shifa_pharmaceutical_factor...

raxxorraxor 13 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
a_paddy 13 hours ago [-]
Gaza is dependent on Israel's permission. Food aid is provided by the UN and other humanitarian organisations, they require Israel's permission to bring that aid into Gaza and not attack it (n.b. attempts since 2010 to deliver aid by boat, such as the MV Rachel Corrie, have been attacked in international waters and the aid never reached Gaza). Israel destroyed the power and water desalination plants, making Gaza dependent on their supply, which has since been used as a weapon.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/07/thirst-weapo... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1w0l3q4zd0o

tdeck 13 hours ago [-]
Why can't Gaza supply itself? There is farmland in Gaza. The Mediterranean sea is right there - plenty of fish.

Other folks are free to Google the answers to these questions.

washadjeffmad 12 hours ago [-]
If they haven't yet, what will get them to look?

Since '93, the range allowed for Palestinian fishing boats has been reduced from 20 to 3 nautical miles by Israeli naval vessels. Because primarily only young fish are found that close to the shore, and because constant damage to infrastructure means untreated wastewater is being dumped close by, it's a pretty bleak picture.

piva00 12 hours ago [-]
I suspect you haven't heard that Gaza is under a blockade for decades?
tome 1 hours ago [-]
Why's it under blockade?
Qem 14 hours ago [-]
> The attack on Gaza’s largest fertility clinic destroyed thousands of embryos, sperm samples, and eggs.

More info on that particular attack: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c15npnzpd08o

bjourne 13 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
raxxorraxor 5 hours ago [-]
You can read up about the members of the Pillay commission, the "Top UN legal investigators", yourself. It is just ridiculous. Reminder that thousands of rockets rained on Israel on October 7th.

Crying genocide after such an attack when your enemy retaliates and retaliates very harshly in the context of middle eastern politics will never be reasonable. Hamas is free to surrender and everything would stop tomorrow.

I quoted from the report, you can make up your mind yourself. But you already did anyway.

Pillay is from the Apartheid crew, that just ignores a side of this conflict. A side that is very much not tolerant of everyone else. Bad and unconvincing report.

tovej 5 hours ago [-]
Reminder that Israel razed hundreds of Palestinian villages to the ground in 1948, and expelled half the Palestinian population from their homeland. Israel has always wanted to ethnically cleanse Palestine of the indigenous population. It has resisted any diplomatic route to a two-state solution, going as far as financing Hamas because Fatah was moving towards a peaceful resolution, and Hamas was seen as an adversary against whom ethnic cleansing would be easier to justify.

Israel is quite literally built on top of the ruins of Palestinian villages. The zionist project has always required an ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population, because the project's goal is to build an ethnostate. This is just culminating in the current genocide.

SilverElfin 28 minutes ago [-]
> Israel is quite literally built on top of the ruins of Palestinian villages

The entire region was historically Jewish. As a simple example, consider the Al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem. It is literally built on the ruins of a Jewish temple from BC times. That is long before any Arabs lived in the area, and long before Islam was invented.

There’s also no such thing as a “Palestinian village” because there is no such identity as Palestinian in truth. There’s just Islamic Arabs who tried to take over this land and claim it is their homeland when their homeland is really elsewhere.

> It has resisted any diplomatic route to a two-state solution

There were at least 5 different offers for a two-state solution historically. The people calling themselves “Palestinian” rejected every one of those. The real reason that can be deduced from this, is that they just don’t want a Jewish state to exist anywhere in any capacity.

raxxorraxor 2 hours ago [-]
Yeah, almost as many people as Jews were driven out of surrounding countries. I don't think headcounts do serve any sensible argument.

There is a lot of fiction in your post and I am not surprised that you have a problem with the existence of Israel.

adhamsalama 59 minutes ago [-]
You do realize Israel committed terrorist attacks against Arab Jews to make them flee their countries, right?
tdeck 13 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
_DeadFred_ 6 hours ago [-]
Seeing the number of flagged comments, and going from past discussions where any discussion seen as pushback was flagged, this discussion really doesn't belong on hacker news.
bix6 2 hours ago [-]
Technology enables so many of these problems and yet the technology builders want to flag it off the face of the internet?
runarberg 5 hours ago [-]
The infrastructure for genocide needs a lot of technology and technology related subject. The victims of genocides include technology workers, hobbyists and hackers. No doubt there are HN members who are current victims of the ongoing genocide. They deserve our sympathy and their existence needs to be acknowledged.
slt2021 5 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
_DeadFred_ 3 hours ago [-]
When peoples' comments are flagged to invisibility, there isn't discussion occuring. When people aren't willing to post, discussion isn't occurring.
Gud 6 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
Ethee 3 hours ago [-]
The problem is there obviously isn't any discussion happening. People are so entrenched on one side or the other and that's pretty apparent by this comment section. Everyone wants to virtue signal without taking any responsibility. The unfortunate reality of this situation is that it's extremely complex and weaves in a lot of historical context. But nobody cares about nuance anymore it's all just "killing bad!" within the framework of whatever controversial event is on the inciters mind. Well duh, but how did we get here? If we can't stop and consider both sides constructively then clearly we're never going to get anywhere and shit like this will just continue.
xg15 2 hours ago [-]
That's essentially the pro-Israel argument for decades (Including the opinion that killing somehow weren't always bad). It hasn't prevented the current situation.

But don't let that stop you. Feel free to make a nuanced and well-researched counterargument why the UN report is wrong.

Ethee 2 hours ago [-]
I'm not sure what you're pointing to in my response to attribute it to Israeli support. I was attempting to make light of the fact that 'discussion' requires two sides. Right now both sides live in a different reality. I am in no way condoning Israel's genocide against Palestinians. But to say Israel is the only one at fault for this situation and to only point fingers to one side betrays the historical facts of the situation. I in no way tried to downplay the situation or play sides so please don't twist my words as if I did.
xg15 2 hours ago [-]
The problem is that there is a massive power imbalance in the conflict and insisting on "both sides" without acknowledging that is itself muddying the waters.

Accusations of "one-sidedness" for everything that doesn't follow the Israeli narrative of the conflict has been a standard defense for decades, last employed against the two-states UN resolution.

That's why I find (naive) insistence on seeing "both sides" problematic in this conflict. By all means, do see both sides, but see them with their respective amounts of power and historical context.

Ethee 2 hours ago [-]
I 100% agree with you here. Which is why it's important to have the acknowledgement that this isn't an isolated situation. There is a 'one-sidedness' for Israel against the Palestinians, in the same way that there's a 'one-sidedness' for the entirety of the Arab nations against the Israeli's. For as long as Israel has existed they've been fighting against their own genocide. I haven't seen anyone acknowledging that? Or that the Arab nations were the ones to provoke the Israeli's in the first place? I find no love for Israel, but we make it waaaay too easy for them to justify these positions. Like it or not it's not as simple as everyone seems to make it out to be. The western nations and the other Arabs were the ones to give up on the Palestinians first, but now all of a sudden we care? Like I said, it's all virtue signaling.
jedimind 1 hours ago [-]
> For as long as Israel has existed they've been fighting against their own genocide. I haven't seen anyone acknowledging that? Or that the Arab nations were the ones to provoke the Israeli's in the first place?

It was so obvious that you were trying to carefully push Zionist propaganda from the very start, but here you went from 0 to 100% hasbara real quick. This isn't 1990, you won't get away with this kind of blatant Zionist revisionism; there are about 10000+ academic articles and videos now that teach the history in painful detail. So give it a rest with your lazy propaganda.

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20231029055310/ojp.gov/ncjrs/vir...

Ethee 1 hours ago [-]
It's sad that we can't take an objective look at the facts of the matter without trying to point to one side and saying it's propaganda. Like is it so hard to say that both sides did bad things? I have no problem acknowledging that Israel is being the ultimate bully right now, is it not okay to say they have a reason? Or should we just ignore all reasoning and condem "killing bad" like I initially said this would devolve to? The US literally has the same problem right now it's kind of insane. How can you try to swat away historical facts, then in the same breath link me a random master's thesis from 1977... Like can we just go to Wikipedia, start from the beginning and then disagree over the facts that actually happened instead of trying to see it through the lens of some 20s something from the 70s?
jedimind 57 minutes ago [-]
so after trying to mislead people with outright lies and historical revisionism based on zionist fantasies, you are trying to "both sides" a livestream genocide and about a century of brutal zionist colonialism. That's your strategy.

>How can you try to swat away historical facts

The cognitive dissonance of Zionists needs to be studied in Universities across the world. You are straight up lying into people's faces and in the same breath projecting your own behavior on others "trying to 'swat away historical facts'". It's truly astonishing.

Ethee 39 minutes ago [-]
Sorry, can you point out exactly where I've lied and how? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the entire history of this conflict goes back to the UN partition plan in 47, which established a Jewish and Palestinian state. Which then lead to the 47-48 civil war, which from everything I've found relating to it, the Arab's were the ones to retaliate against the Jews in the region which started the war and it's been basically tit for tat ever since. A Palestinian petition to the Security Council in 48 even said this: "Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein."

I have no issue discussing this situation, in fact that was the whole point of my original statement. Which is that most people seem too emotionally attached to this situation to the point where they can't even have a proper discussion without trying to talk down to me about a position I don't even hold.

https://web.archive.org/web/20101003080945/http://unispal.un...

runarberg 15 minutes ago [-]
I would go back to the founding principle of Zionism, and claim that the start of the conflict was when Zionists decided to colonize Palestine and found their own nation state on other people’s lands.

But if you insist on starting with the Palestinian civil war then you will soon find that a lot of Palestinians were expelled from their lands and never granted the right of return. It was not merely the partition, but the fact the international human rights granted the right of return for Palestinians illegally expelled, but this international human rights was promptly denied to Palestinians and has been till this day. There is no tit for tat here, as Zionists have not been illegally displaced and Zionists don’t have their rights of return denied to them.

jedimind 19 minutes ago [-]
>Sorry, can you point out exactly where I've lied and how?

I already quoted that exact part and even referenced the academic work which elaborated on it in detail. It was also not a "random" master thesis, it is academic work that is cited by the United States Government.

>Correct me if I'm wrong

"Entertain my Zionist revisionism". I've heard variations of your hasbara for 2 decades. It's insane that you still think that you can just lie in people's faces when everybody can just fact check you in a jiffy. You obviously don't care about the facts, that's why you persist in trying to deceive people with Zionist revisionism, but for others who happen to stumble upon this convo here some elaboration that concisely debunks these Zionist talking points:

- "The Conflict Based on a Lie" https://youtu.be/dy56Q1a0Flc - "The Masterplan for the Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" https://youtu.be/C3cnRcfp_us

For anyone who is more interested in a comprehensive study of the history, Zachary Foster is a jewish historian whose research can be found at palestinenexus.com of which he is the founder of.

dotancohen 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
nemomarx 2 hours ago [-]
As far as I understand, they've made many offers to release the hostages in exchange for their own people or for other concessions. You can track the negotiations pretty well, although occasionally the diplomats get bombed for some reason.
dotancohen 1 hours ago [-]
Diplomats - who don't even live in the strip - were recently (unsuccessfully) bombed.

If Hamas wants to end the war (or supposed genocide) then they can release the hostages with no additional demands. The fact that the supposed genocide victims choose to continue the war is quite the sign that this is not genocide, in what other situation would a victim choose to continue a war that is a genocide against his people?

lentil_soup 1 hours ago [-]
The victims are the 60k+ dead people (including children), stop confusing things, you know this.

No one here is defending Hamas

dotancohen 38 minutes ago [-]

  > The victims are the 60k+ dead people (including children), stop confusing things, you know this.
Agreed. And Hamas are responsible for igniting this war. And Hamas are responsible for not ending it by returning the hostages.
aqme28 2 hours ago [-]
They've offered! Israel's government is demonstrably not interested in the hostages.
dotancohen 1 hours ago [-]
They don't need to make offers with additional demands. They need to release the hostages. And the war should continue, until they feel pressured to release the hostages.
2 hours ago [-]
2 hours ago [-]
buellerbueller 2 hours ago [-]
The war could stop at any minute, if only Netanyahu stops it.
dotancohen 1 hours ago [-]
Why would Netanyahu stop the war? It is the only pressure on Hamas.

The way war usually works, is the side that feels it has something to loose, sues for peace by making concessions. However the international backing of Hamas has ensured them that they have nothing to loose, and everything to gain, by attacking the Jewish state.

neo2006 46 minutes ago [-]
it's not a war Netanyahu is killing innocent people and taking a full population hostage.

Also, most of the people in Gaza are not Hamas members and are regular civilians. What Natanyahu is doing is basically analog to the following:

A killer take a member of your family as a hostage (Hamas in this case is the killer) so you decide to kill a member of their family every hour until they release your beloved one. Do you think that this is acceptable or are you trying to make it acceptable?

SilverElfin 40 minutes ago [-]
Gaza isn’t just “regular civilians”. When Israel stepped away from Gaza, those civilians VOTED for Hamas. They opted for the fundamentalist, reprehensible charter that Hamas has. Sure you can claim that younger residents were not voting in that election - but they’re part of the same population and culture that empowers Hamas and Islamic terrorism. They’re not the same but they aren’t unlinked either.

> A killer take a member of your family as a hostage (Hamas in this case is the killer) so you decide to kill a member of their family every hour until they release your beloved one. Do you think that this is acceptable or are you trying to make it acceptable?

This is not what is happening. Israel has gone through painstaking effort to avoid collateral damage as much as is practical when you are dealing with terrorists hiding among a willing civilian population. If they wanted to, they could have easily leveled the entire city in the first couple days of this conflict, which obviously did not happen. They’re not “deciding to kill a member of their family”. They’re contains the security risk to Israel and its residents with as little collateral damage as possible.

dotancohen 37 minutes ago [-]
Do you know why you have so many videos of buildings being destroyed in the Gaza strip? Because Israel warns away civilians before destroying them. Doesn't sound to me like Israel is trying to kill civilians.
bix6 2 hours ago [-]
Combined with the other ongoing conflicts it really feels like we’re in a WW3 era
wmeredith 1 hours ago [-]
I don't want to downplay the atrocities going on in the current conflicts, but this sort of comment deserves some perspective.

About 70 million people were killed in WW2, as of the present day about 1 million have died in the war Russia is waging against Ukraine and about 70k people have died in the Israeli/Palestine conflict. The horrors are most certainly real. But WW3 this era is most certainly not, that's thankfully off by an order of magnitude.

darth_avocado 1 hours ago [-]
The World Wars were called World Wars because of the number conflicts and the powers involved. While the casualties and damage has been lower, it seems like the powers are at least indirectly involved at the moment.
thehappypm 34 minutes ago [-]
If you look back through history this has been the case since at least the Cold War, though. All the proxy hot wars in the Cold War, for example, back when the world was bi-polar. Now it’s multipolar with similar proxy wars.
impossiblefork 41 minutes ago [-]
Yes, but WWII also had a phase called Phony War, and after that much of the war was in Poland.

We could say that Ukraine is the current Poland.

epolanski 2 hours ago [-]
Sadly history is a very poorly studied topic.

I look at European leaders and they don't seem to remember it any better.

7952 26 minutes ago [-]
The best way to teach history would be to make politicians dig slit trenches and then shell them for a few days. Anything less than that people will always end up regurgitating ethno nationalist bullshit or "geopolitics".
tick_tock_tick 1 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
asdefghyk 11 hours ago [-]
UN has previously discredited themselves. UNRWA taking part in Oct 7th. UNRWA holding hostages.
mfru 11 hours ago [-]
that sounds like IDF propaganda and their credibility is basically non-existent
asdefghyk 3 hours ago [-]
My claims have been widely reported in the media
user3939382 2 hours ago [-]
The UN’s teeth appear to be red white and blue.
rustystump 1 hours ago [-]
There is no discussion only mass flagging for anyone who isnt in lockstep on this. This is why politics is usually a subject to be avoided.

I am sure i will be flagged despite completely agreeing with the UN here but if any real change is to happen, minds must be changed which mass flagging does nothing to help. It only further entrenches people. But hey, at least it feels good right? Righteous and all that.

For those who disagree with the UN here, id be happy to change your mind. The us should not be involved in any of this.

pxc 43 minutes ago [-]
Comments on this post are disabled for new accounts, but in the era of anti-BDS regulation and other measures aimed specifically at curtailing practical freedom of speech surrounding this conflict, can we really comment freely on this without anonymity? The vast majority (38/50) of US states have passed some form of anti-BDS legislation. We can also expect corporate retaliation against employees who speak about this issue in a "wrong way".
eej71 2 hours ago [-]
It's always useful to balance these claims against their critics.

Towards that end I offer up unwatch.

https://unwatch.org/

rzk 2 hours ago [-]
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Watch:

> Agence France-Presse has described UN Watch as "a lobby group with strong ties to Israel" ... Primarily, UN Watch denounces what it views as anti-Israel sentiment at the UN and UN-sponsored events.

buyucu 3 minutes ago [-]
unwatch is funded by religious lunatics in Israel. Nobody takes it seriously.
2 hours ago [-]
random9749832 2 hours ago [-]
Nice critic. I remember on Reddit watching someone get blown up the other day while carrying water while it was still up. I think they were under 10.

Not sure if they died or just lost all their limbs.

dotancohen 58 minutes ago [-]
That was a young Gazan girl who tripped a Hamas IED that had been set for Israeli troops. That's why there was a camera pointed at it.
random9749832 56 minutes ago [-]
>That was a young Gazan girl

Are we sure we are talking about the same child who got blown up? There is quite a few.

dotancohen 48 minutes ago [-]
Not 100% sure, but that one was posted all over as they tried to pin it on Israel. It could have been another, unfortunately many children are dying right now.
bix6 2 hours ago [-]
Is there a specific report arguing that Israel is not committing genocide? I don’t see it on the home page.
bjoli 2 hours ago [-]
Unwatch is, and has always been, critical of everything the UN does with regards to Israel. Had the UN made one statement like "Israel should not arbitrarily detain children and hold them without fair trials", I am pretty sure unwatch would twist it into antisemitism.
dotancohen 56 minutes ago [-]
Is there a specific report arguing that the US, or Canada, or the UK, are not committing genocide?
shadowgovt 2 hours ago [-]
True. And in the interest of balancing the claims of the critics, I offer up the observation that UN Watch is "a lobby group with strong ties to Israel" (AFP article: Capella, Peter. "UN Gaza probe chief underlines balanced approach." 7-Jul-2009. https://web.archive.org/web/20111222162658/https://www.googl...).
dotancohen 57 minutes ago [-]
And most of the UN are nations who depend upon Arab oil, or who are in an ideological conflict with the US.
DaveExeter 2 hours ago [-]
Isn't that an Israeli "hasbara" site? The Israelis have admitted that they use the false cry of "antisemitism" to attack.

"Calling it antisemitism - it’s a trick we always use." Shulamit Aloni, former Israeli Minister

https://x.com/SuppressedNws/status/1896748975207952758

gspencley 2 hours ago [-]
How is that a refutation?

If I want to understand any position I would look for first sources. Say I want to understand why Russian invaded Ukraine, I would seek out Russian sources. When I try to understand the Palestinian position, I seek out Palestinian sources.

The beautiful thing about intellectual honesty and openness is that you don't have to agree with any position. You can expose yourself to things that deeply conflict with your personal values and walk away with a deeper understanding of why you value what you value, and how to refute ideas that you strongly disagree with.

To dismiss a source because it is Israeli ironically gives fuel to the antisemitism charge. You're saying that the very reason to dismiss it, to not even bother entertaining its arguments is because it is Israeli and no other reason. Beyond that, you are even arguing that any claims of prejudice can be dismissed outright on the basis of one thing that one Israeli Minster once said [allegedly].

That is the very definition of prejudice.

eej71 2 hours ago [-]
I agree. I find it interesting to hear from Palenstinian sources about their motivations and goals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJxjmEbUZxM

alexisread 1 hours ago [-]
Quite simply Israelis and Jews are not the same group, otherwise you would be holding all Jews on the planet responsible for this genocide. Dismissing the source for being Israeli is not antisemitic.

There are many examples of Israeli sources lying about the state of things, from the baseless claims against UNRWA to the unconscionable excuse of burying medics and the ambulances they were in, to avoid wild dogs eating them.

Israeli sources rarely offer evidence to refute the claims presented in this report, and a cry of antisemitism, as stated, conflates Judeism with Israeli nationality, hence these sources are worthless at best.

eej71 1 hours ago [-]
re: "baseless claims against UNRWA"

They come with receipts. Uncomfortable as they are.

https://unwatch.org/evidence-of-unrwa-aid-to-hamas-on-and-af...

alexisread 44 minutes ago [-]
Which are not validated by the UN, Norway etc. https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148821 If the claims were valid, countries would not have restarted funding to UNRWA. Simple.

I note you've not denied the issues with claims of antisemitism which are important.

eej71 28 minutes ago [-]
There is considerable evidence that there is a deep connection between members of Hamas and its extensive support network and UNRWA.

Receipts: https://unwatch.org/report-unrwas-terrorgram/

If that's not antisemitic, I'm not sure what would be in your mind.

But I think for you, you are able to dismiss it because the rest of the world choose to not see it.

alexisread 12 minutes ago [-]
I was referring to your conflation of Israelis with Jews, and calling dismissal of an Israeli news source antisemitic, which it is not.

I'm saying that a biased Israeli news source is less valid than the actions of dozens of countries, which decided to restart funding.

It is telling that UN votes for a ceasefire are only opposed by the US, Israel and a handful of client states. This is a genocide, and most countries seem to agree on that.

DaveExeter 55 minutes ago [-]
"To dismiss a source because it is Israeli ironically gives fuel to the antisemitism charge."

We agree it is an Israeli source.

All the unwatch site does is accuse Israel's critics of being antisemites. When you can't respond to the message, attack the messenger. Accuse them of being antisemitic and being funded by Hamas.

The Israelis have taken it to the point of farce!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/09/stop-antisem...

eej71 43 minutes ago [-]
Receipts: https://unwatch.org/report-unrwas-terrorgram/
breppp 1 hours ago [-]
You are aware that Shulamit Alloni was on the extreme left and was criticizing this supposed misuse of Antisemitism, this is not some playbook

The american equivalent would be to quote Bernie Sanders saying "America is fascist" and then saying, see? therefore the USA system of government is fascism, even Congress agrees!

dotancohen 49 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
ViewTrick1002 41 minutes ago [-]
Of course ignoring that Hamas was deliberately funded by Israel to cause a split between the politics of the West Bank and Gaza to prevent a unified political authority in Palestine.
eej71 31 minutes ago [-]
I can well imagine a parallel universe where Israel gave them NO money whatsoever. You know what would have happened? Hamas would do the usual Islamic fundamentalist thing. Form a terrorist group and attack Israel. And then media commentators and intellectuals would accuse Israel of failing to help Hamas get put on the right path by helping them at the start, and instead Israel's inaction was like strangling a baby in the cradle. Typical Israel! Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
dotancohen 36 minutes ago [-]
And today they are promoted by second and third world countries who oppose the first world, specifically to divide the first world nations.

They are succeeding.

ViewTrick1002 25 minutes ago [-]
This sounds to me like you are trying portray poorer countries as lesser worth because they had the guts of calling Israel out.

The solution to rich countries being divided on an the issue of an ongoing genocide is you know, not committing said genocide.

dotancohen 18 minutes ago [-]

  > This sounds to me like you are trying portray poorer countries as lesser worth because they had the guts of calling Israel out.
No, I'm portraying non-US-aligned nations as having an interest in dividing the US-aligned nations.

What does "poorer" have anything to do with it? Is that some tactic to garner sympathy?

ViewTrick1002 4 minutes ago [-]
> However, Third World is still used as a (pejorative) term for the traditionally less-developed world (e.g. Africa)

So now the entire west, NATO and other US allies should with blinded conviction approve of the genocide?

This seems like you are afraid of isolation and the fallout of the ongoing genocide.

There’s cracks showing and you know when they open Israel will lose its privileged position.

amelius 1 hours ago [-]
You can criticize it, but the fact that we're here should tell you enough already.

There is no "yes, but" when genocide is taking place.